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| Avoiding Camera Shake With Shutter Speed |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 04:57:54 AM por Maigi |
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Well, I have a newbie question.
How fast your shutter speed have to be to avoid camera shake? Or does such speed exists at all? Can I relay on some speed that I'll get images without camera shake, if I use f.e. 80mm lens with the speed of 1/100 or faster? Is there any formula how to calculate it? Or can we avoid blur images only by using tripod? Is there any way to get razor sharp images by shooting from hand?
It always seems to me that I would like to see my images more sharper than they are and I always have to sharpen images via postprocessing. Is this the only way? |
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Mensaje editado el día 02/01/2008, 05:31:38 AM por Stuartkey |
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The general rule of thumb has always been to use a shutter speed higher than the focal length of the lens. So, for 80mm lens you need 1/80 sec or faster.
However, you also need to factor in the crop effect of your camera sensor. So if you have a 1.6x crop sensor (which I think your 400D is) then you need more like 1/125 sec - being 80mm x 1.6 = 128 so nearest available speed is 125.
However (again), even using this formula you still need to use a steady hand and good camera technique to achieve sharp images. It is possible to induce camera shake even at high shutter speeds with enough movement. I think the trick with hand held shots is to always be aware of your shutter speed and if you can use anything to help stabilize your camera then do it. Lampposts, fences, walls and spouses all make great improvised image stabilizers!
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 05:38:13 AM por Petarneychev - el miembro es un administrador |
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For most people (unless you're a surgeon or something similar) with a non image stabilized camera and/or lens anything below 1/60s is uncertain as to whether it'll be blurry or not. And that's for shorter focal lengths (say 28-35mm). As your focal length increases above 50mm, 80mm, 100mm all your shake movements are multiplied so much that it's almost impossible to keep it sharp w/o a tripod at ISO 100 or even 200 and shutter speed of 1/60s. Numbers however depend a lot on the lighting conditions.
You can increase the ISO to reduce some camera shake too. However, an image stabilized lens seems to be the most optimal non-tripod solution, although it's pricey compared to the same non stabilized lens.
On a side note - some lenses just aren't sharp enough. Your 50mm ought to be very sharp for its low price at apertures above 2.0 or 2.8. But I don't really know what the case of your Tamron is.
There are also several smaller tripods that rest on your body. I've noticed them to be rare to find, but you might want to look on-line. They'll give you a bit more flexibility than a regular tripod.
Hope this was useful, although it is very general. |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 07:57:19 AM por Cashcb |
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remember also the crop factor....on my nikon dslr a 300mm lens is equal as shooting with a 450mm lens....so the speed should be 1/450 or faster (i usually use 1/600 and above). |
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Mensaje editado el día 02/01/2008, 10:10:11 AM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Stuartkey: |
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| Mensaje citado: So if you have a 1.6x crop sensor (which I think your 400D is) then you need more like 1/125 sec - being 80mm x 1.6 = 128 so nearest available speed is 125. |
Thanks, Stuart! So, with my camera the formula is: shutter speed = 1 / focal lenght x 1.6 sec
So theoretically speak, I should get sharp images with my 18-250mm lens with the speed of 1/400 and above? Faster than 1/400, the speed doesn't influence camera shake - I mean raising speed doesn't help me, it doesn't give me sharper images. To get more sharpness I have to do something else to stabilize my camera. Is my reasoning correct? Or is it still the faster it is, the sharper it could be?
Petar, Filippo, thanks for your comments too! Talking about tripod... well sometimes even that doesn't help. One day on Canary Island I woke up early in the morning and wanted to go out taking pictures of beautiful misty sunrise over the sleepy island. When I found a good location with a fantastic view on the mountains and awakening city and sky over the island turned incredibly beautifully purple with it's different shades, there raised so heavy wind that I couldn't keep my tripod stand still... aah, it was a little bit sad, but I understood, that tripod doesn't help, if it's too light and easy to carry around. So I just stood there and enjoyed the view... it's still in front of my eyes, when I'm think about it... but no photos. Well, the reason to go back with very light lens and heavy tripod. :)
But still it's good to know that in "normal conditions" from shutter speed 1/400 starts my "safety zone". |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 10:44:10 AM por Stuartkey |
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| Posteado originlmente por Maigi: |
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| Mensaje citado: Or is it still the faster it is, the sharper it could be? |
Sort of. The faster the shutter speed, the more likely you are to be using a wide aperture. Most lenses start to lose quality and sharpness the closer you get to their maximum aperture, hence it is always good practice to stop down. Unless you want minimum DOF of course.
So, it's a balance between reducing the risk of camera shake and getting the visual effect you are after regarding aperture and DOF.
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Mensaje editado el día 02/01/2008, 11:36:37 AM por Wysiwygfoto |
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If I'm in a situation outside of the studio or without a tripod (think editorial type shots), I'm usually shooting in aperture priority at f/8. I try to keep the shutter speed at 1/500th or higher. If I can't achieve that, then I'll either adjust to a higher ISO or I'll adjust to a larger aperture.
I don't like to do the math because typically I'll over-think the situation and before you know it, the image you wanted is gone.
If I have time to set up a shot then I will use the resources around me...if you don't have a tripod, try a tree, a stick, etc. Last weekend I shot this image using an ice auger (device for drilling a hole in the ice while fishing) to create a panorama. One hand was holding the auger upright, the other was holding the camera which was resting on the auger.
![Imagen no disponible o la identificación es incorrecta.]()
The image really isn't stock-worthy (it's a snapshot - no real subject to call attention to) but it's not too bad for using a cheap point & shoot set to manual settings and an ice auger for a tripod! |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 11:40:11 AM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Stuartkey: |
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| Mensaje citado: Sort of. The faster the shutter speed, the more likely you are to be using a wide aperture. |
Ok, that's true. So, the wider aperture is, the smaller is the depth of field, and then I can have blurry images not because of camera shake, but because of focusing problems. Hmm... that makes sense. Thanks! |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/01/2008, 11:57:35 AM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Wysiwygfoto: |
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| Mensaje citado: if you don't have a tripod, try a tree, a stick, etc. Last weekend I shot this image using an ice auger (device for drilling a hole in the ice while fishing) to create a panorama. |
:) Good point. I always feel that no matter how high I set my shutter speed, my hand is faster to shake while pressing shutter button. I have thought about using remote control.
That's a great image, Ed! Exhilarating. :) |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/02/2008, 07:30:46 AM por Littlemacproductions |
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| Posteado originlmente por Stuartkey: |
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| Mensaje citado: Lampposts, fences, walls and spouses all make great improvised image stabilizers! |
If your spouse isn't stable don't use them. Nice thread.. good ideas and specs. |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/03/2008, 20:50:11 PM por Brybry57 |
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A monopod is always great too my carbonfiber monopod weighs less than a pound plus the head.... but a good rule to follow is with a short lens (about 50mm) with a steady hand 1/60 is about the lowest you should go |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/05/2008, 00:05:58 AM por Kenny123 |
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By way of the crop factor-not only lens focal length applies,because of the sensor size,any movement of the lens is exaggerated by 1.5, so the guide is to use a shutter-speed at least 3 times the focal length of the lens eg: 50mm lens-minimum shutter-speed 1/150th sec. The best way to hand hold i have experienced, is to rest camera/lens in crook of bent left arm,(held horizontally,with the left hand,gripping right hand forearm. No with the camera pressed against your forehead-You have an amazingly stable stance, and should be able to hand-hold at 1/30 sec or even 1/15 sec. Try It! Regards, Ken |
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Mensaje editado el día 02/05/2008, 14:27:33 PM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Kenny123: |
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| Mensaje citado: The best way to hand hold i have experienced, is to rest camera/lens in crook of bent left arm,(held horizontally,with the left hand,gripping right hand forearm. No with the camera pressed against your forehead... |
Thank you for your input, guys.
Ken, I always love to try your suggestions. Don't you happen to have any photos depicting that camera holding technique? I'd love to see, how to do it. :] My English goes crazy, when I try to understand, what you said... :( It's not my native language... |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/05/2008, 18:52:08 PM por Sophieso |
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A few tricks I learned while watching some top pros during mentor treks have already been mention, but with slight variations. Poles and fences are great, but it also works to put the side of your camera up against something to stabilize it. It doesn't have to be on top. Also setting the camera to fire as many fps, then depressing the shutter button and keeping it there getting as many shots as possible without removing your finger. That way you've only caused shake with the first depression of your finger on the button, and the third or fourth shot can be crystal clear. I have some in my portfolio that are handheld at pretty slow speeds, and some yet to be uploaded at 1/6 handheld. I got those shots by resting my back against a building, essentially making a tripod with my elbows dug into my sides, then continuously shooting. Out of 15 shots I got maybe two that were spot on. Just delete the duds :-) |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/06/2008, 08:22:39 AM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Sophieso: |
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| Mensaje citado: some yet to be uploaded at 1/6 handheld |
wow, that's impressive... thanks for tips!
welcome back, Cyd! ;) |
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Canon 550D, Tamron AF 18-270mm, Canon 50mm, Wacom Intuos4 M,...
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/06/2008, 11:42:23 AM por Sophieso |
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Thanks, Maigi. It's good to be back, and especially good to see you.
I checked my port and there is a shot i took on the streets of NYC at 1/5 handheld. The title is a ridiculous one i put on it. Something like "A lot off people on a street." It was shot with my back against a pole and continuous shooting.
Good luck with your efforts. James Porto never shoots faster than 1/60 in the studio. I guess when you've been shooting 25 years it's easy to pull it off :-) |
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Mensaje editado el día 02/10/2008, 15:19:27 PM por Kenny123 |
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| Posteado originlmente por Maigi: |
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| Mensaje citado: [quote]The best way to hand hold i have experienced, is to rest camera/lens in crook of bent left arm,(held horizontally,with the left hand,gripping right hand forearm. No with the camera pressed against your forehead... |
Thank you for your input, guys.
Ken, I always love to try your suggestions. Don't you happen to have any photos depicting that camera holding technique? I'd love to see, how to do it. :] My English goes crazy, when I try to understand, what you said... :( It's not my native language...[/quote]
I never got round to mastering how to get a photo onto these forums,but if you try http://alittlenews.wordpress.com you will find a picture of this technique. Just scroll back until you find it (5th page back "A human Monopod" November 17 2007).A very good blog by Gary Cosby Jr, a news photographer with the Decatur(Alabama)Daily.
Regards, Ken |
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Nikon D50
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Canon Ixus/Elph 2 (APS)
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Mensaje editado el día 02/10/2008, 15:30:56 PM por Maigi |
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| Posteado originlmente por Kenny123: |
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| Mensaje citado: if you try http://alittlenews.wordpress.com you will find a picture of this technique. Just scroll back until you find it (5th page back "A human Monopod" November 17 2007). |
Yes, I got it!!! The Human Monopod
Thank you very much, Ken!!
Cyd, your NYC streets shot is great. A little bit slower speed, and there wouldn't be anybody on your photo, just an empty street with shadows... |
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Mensaje editado el día 02/13/2008, 04:33:14 AM por Neddog |
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I just love that pose with the lens resting in the crook of your left arm. Very stable... But the only thing that bothers me about it is the difficulty in adjusting your zoom and focus before taking the shot. You pretty much have to use your auto-focus through the shutter button, which on my camera is only a 3-point auto focus, and not very good.
Here is another method you guys might find useful... Using tension-stabilization by attaching a string to your tripod mount (I tied mine to a spare tripod foot, the article just uses regular bolts), the other end looped around your toe (or on mine, I also added a large clip which can be stepped on, for a quicker setup):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wiskerke/artikelen/string.html
It is quite effective, cheap, and easy to port around. And the advantage it has over using your body as a stabilizer, is that it frees both hands to operate the camera lens.
Here is a video showing how to make it, and putting it into action (it's not actually as good for panning as it appears in the video, as turning your body to pan will change the tension on the string, and give you uneven stabilization - maybe even pulling you off track if the string's not set perfect):
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1041948/1_image_stabilizer_for_any_camera_lose_the_tripod/ |
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Mensaje posteado el día 02/13/2008, 04:38:20 AM por Neddog |
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| Posteado originlmente por Sophieso: |
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| Mensaje citado: Also setting the camera to fire as many fps, then depressing the shutter button and keeping it there getting as many shots as possible without removing your finger. That way you've only caused shake with the first depression of your finger on the button, and the third or fourth shot can be crystal clear. |
Excellent suggestion! :D |
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